Hi...I am sorry if this is a foolish question but I am a newbie to Endler's because my son wanted some for his tank...only ELB, there are no other fish in the tank.
My question is...I have read many articles and posts on different forums about "pure" strain and "hybrid" strain...I purchased 5 ELB females (three at 1 store, 2 at another) and each was paired with a male when they are sold...do I go on the premise that they are all hybrid because the LFS staffers would not tell me from who or from where they acquired the ELB? All 5 females are pregnant and I have no idea if it was an ELB or guppy they were tankmates with. Will any of this be a problem if I am only planning on keeping them in our tanks at home and not selling, auctioning or giving them away as "true Endler's"?
No asked question is foolish and you will find many opinions about Endler’s Livebearers.
My guess is that yes, your fish are probably hybrids. I think just about all fish in the hobby are now hybrids.
I really think Endler’s Livebearers are just a color form of Poecilia reticulata. However, they were described as Poecilia wingei. If you didn’t buy P. wingei then they are a hybrid. Common names do not mean anything other than it is a name someone wants to make up. Even if you did buy them as P. wingei they are probably hybrids.
If you like the way that the fish look then by all means breed them. I sell my colony as P. reticulata X P. wingei – Endler’s Livebearers. If it looks like and Endler’s, swims like and Endler’s and breeds like and Endler’s, then it is a guppy. (Thought I would say Endler’s didn’t you?)
They were not sold by their latin species classification, only by Endler's. I know at least two are hybrid (been doing more research) because they are the tiger type. We also have a vibrant orange/red with black bar, and two that look more "traditional. They were sold in M/F pairs so I have five of each. All five females were pregnant when purchased (not surprising...lol) but I have no idea how many fishies they've been swimming with...I guess it will be a waiting game. One of the females looks ready to burst any day now...my bet is before tomorrow night. The other four, I can't tell.
They are wonderful little fish, and seem to have many great color options which makes it easy to have a colorful species tank. Would posting pics help identify them? No matter what type they are, we love them and are glad to have made a tank for them.
I will point out also that there is an older thread here on this board where several ALA members and I had some heated discussion about some portions of the article, however these are all nits on historical details and nuances of wording.
As a beginner with the fish, it should tell you everything you want to know about them. If you want to see the controversy, I'll let you dig up the old thread and enjoy the fireworks.
Hi Fishpunk. I actually read the article and that thread before we got our ELB but since the fish store staff wouldn't tell their sources other than saying "hobbyists" (probably because they don't know), I have no idea how much hybridization and/or inbreeding has been involved.
Amazing that such cute little fish could create such controversy. As I am new to ELB, I think for now my son and I are going to enjoy these little guys regardless of their pedigree. If we ever decide to get more entrenched in breeding (not that we have a choice since that is a livebearer's favorite hobby), we will make decisions about the purchase of some pure strains. We know we do have mostly hybrids based on the patterns of the males, what we do not know is what exactly the 5 gravid females were doing before they got in our tank. I know in the stores they were in with celestial pearl danios and at the other store they were with other ELBs...before that...no clue. I can post pics later if anyone is curious or thinks it will help.
Well...it true livebearer form...I already have fry. We only got the ELB on Sunday and we already have six fry hanging out in the java moss. The females are chasing them like crazy every time they come out of hiding so I don't know how many fry have become snack food. And of course the male shimmy dances continue so more fry to come I am sure (especially since the other females are all pretty chubby).
Like I said, I know they are not pure ELB but we have definitely fallen for these cuties. I hope no one is offended that I like the hybrids.
If you have obtained your "endlers" from your local fish shop, they are not pure, class N endlers. They might possibly be class P endlers, meaning they are probably pure, but even that is unlikely unless the store can give you details of their heritage. Few people take the trouble to properly isolate their endlers, so a guppy cross happens somewhere along the line. No matter how nice the fish look, they cannot be called a class N unless you can trace them back to a class N breeder. I have seen some gorgeous class K endlers, guppy/endler crosses, but they are not "pure" in the sense that endler breeders mean it. As you may have guessed, I do breed class N endlers.
After doing lots of reading of different websites, I am fairly certain my elb males are class k...and by association my females would be too right? I have one chili, two tiger and two that I can't really define but they are definitley a variety of elb.
Can't wait to see what the fry look like. It has been about 12 days and I keep checking for hints of color. I definitely see some tiger tails but they haven't colored up yet.
A tiger is definitely a guppy cross, and one of the prettiest of them IMO. If any of the females have any color except the basic grey, they are also the result of a cross (A lot of crosses have some shade of color in their tails for instance).
I look forward to your pictures as the fry develop.
Oh boy...almost had no fry or females to take pics of...
I got home this evening and went upstairs to feed them and didn't see any fish in the tank! I panicked...the cover was on and closed so I knew the cat didn't get them and they couldn't have jumped out. I started pulling up plants, driftwood and the divider. The thermometer in the tank said 85 degrees! The heater malfunctioned...ugh! I found several dead fry and all five females had wedged themselves into holes in the plant covered driftwood. I checked the other water parameters...ammonia still zero, nitrItes still zero, nitrAtes still around 5ppm...but eeeek, the ph was below 6. My poor son was crying "mom you have to save them!"
I did a 20% water change, waited half an hour then did another and then a third half an hour after that. I always keep a spare heater so I swapped that out. I did not put the divider back in just in case that was a contributing factor. The fry are almost two weeks old so they should fair well with the foxtail, riccia, java moss, java fern, anubias and anacharis to hide in. Within fifteen minutes of the final water change, they were all mooching for food, which I think is a good sign.
I do think they all aborted their current fry because this morning they all were chubby and gravid but tonight they were slim and pale...but we will see what tomorrow brings. My other tank is fine...perfect parameters...so if I have to move them temporarily, I do have that option.
But to answer about the females color...they are all that golden/butter color and had the hatch marks from being gravid. There is no hint of color in their fins or bodies that I have been able to detect. So...hopefully they are not "pure" p. reticulata.