I had recognized your name. In fact, if I recall correctly, you use to mail your orders in. Thanks for your past business. I hope you get back into fish in the near future.

Regarding print issues, we still have many members who either don't have a PC, aren't tech-savvy, or simply prefer print. We're proud of our 'veterans', and we don't want to alienate even one member by forcing them to read an online version if they prefer not to, or otherwise can't do so. We are, however, exploring the option of allowing members to opt out of a print version.

As long as you are presenting your 'wants and haves' in the standard format (as opposed to a typical business ad) there won't be an issue with your listing in The Trader. I obtained BOD permission before listing in the online classifieds, but each item was listed as 'for sale' like anyone else who had something for sale.

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Thanks Melody. Are these classifieds guidelines stated somewhere? I looked all over the site for anything that could be construed as rules. I found nothing. Thanks if you could point me to it.

Sorry Steve, if I misinformed you and sorry to the BOD if I told him to do something we don't want done. All the more reason to make the guidelines easy to understand and find.

I'll look to see if the classified module easily lets me put anything that states the guidelines on that page, otherwise I'll add it manually when I can. I think we need it to be listed somewhere.

There is also currently a limit of 10 ads per member if you are using the classifieds and you should list the ad in the appropriate category instead of bulk listing your entire inventory in one ad.

When you are creating an ad, there is a field called "Type" with a pull down on the ad creation form. I have added the type "looking for" to that list. So if you are looking for a fish, you create an add just like you do if selling and just choose "looking for" from the type.

I also think it would be very nice if any member using the classifieds would also email Gordon to get your looking for or for sale ads listed in the trader. There were very few ads listed in the last one he sent out but we had scads of people posting ads in the general forum. I'd like to see that change, especially since Gordon takes the time to put it together. I don't have any qualms with removing the drive by ads that some one-post wonders add to the site, but I hate to start yanking long time members posts. Please lets start sending those ads into Gordon and using the classifieds. Thanks in advance. I would also like to know if there are any policies on this. There is no "For Sale" section on the public forums and therefore I interpret that to mean they are not welcome to be posted, except in the classifieds module (for ALA members) and in the Trader.

Personally, I like the printed versions of both TRADER and LIVEBEARERS. I love getting them in the mail and sitting down with them. I think they are a nice benefit to joining the organization. There are some really good articles submitted by some really fine authors. I think it would be a shame if we stopped mailing them and those with out PC or internet access got left out. I'm all for putting them online but I'd like for it to be in a fashion that protects the content from being downloaded and posted elsewhere or shared with non members without it being a nightmare to program and for the members to use. I got a searing email once from a gentlemen because of the 2 password thing I had setup to access the pdf's (one to logon to the site and one to get to the publications). There were technical reasons I did it that way, which I will not get into, that kept the content much more secure from unauthorized access but man, did it get me a few choice comments in the PM's and email. LoL

Thanks for joining Steve and thanks Melody for the info.

Peace,
~Troy

Troy, the only problem I see with the "Trader" vs an online post that contains an item for sale, is that often times the fish available are very limited and will be sold long before an issue got mailed. A seller probably does not want to wait for the time needed to sell the fish through the Trader.

I'm looking for fish now, and I don't even have a clue when I may receive an issue of the Trader and no idea if it will even have ornamental varieties in it. I see the couple online samples do not. With today's technology, who wants to wait?

Just the perspective from a new guy looking for fish.

Gordon will usually post when he is going to print the next issue. It gets printed a few times a year but I honestly don't know the schedule. We will also send out an email a little before he is going to put one together so keep your email address current.

Yes, the classifieds section would be better unless you had stuff available at at time that coincided with the Trader being mailed. That is kinda what I meant. He runs one before convention time and that is also when a lot of people hit the forum looking for fish or trying to sell.

Before I became a member I wondered the same thing because you don't even see the classified areas unless you have ALA member access. Truthfully, I don't have any idea how a new, non-ALA member would come here and find fish without just posting in the general discussion forum. There is no real place for those posts. I'm not sure if there should be or not, I'll add it to my list of questions to ask. I don't want to go adding a section to the forum or allowing activities that the BOD doesn't approve. We do have the places for those ads to be run but they are all member only areas.

I was not an ALA member when the site was built and all these issues were probably hammered out.

Personally, I think joining is more than worth the cost of membership. I've met some very nice people here and had offers of fish that you can't find everyday. I've not attended an ALA convention yet but I hear it is a great place to find lots of rare livebearers.

Peace,
~Troy

To say we wing it would be... well... accurate...LOL. I only know about it because I didn't want to spam the forum classifieds, since many forums frown upon business listings. So I asked before posting specific products. There was a short discussion that basically involved a lot of shrugging and a general consensus of "Sure, as long as it doesn't get to be a problem like it is in some forums." I didn't renew them because I thought the format was changing, but I should get around to it I suppose. I agree that we should have some guidelines in place.

The online classifieds were designated 'members only' as a perk of membership after an equally informal discussion. As mentioned, a lot of people don't want to deal with the general public. If you're serious enough about Livebearers to join the ALA, and you're involved with the club (helping with conventions, volunteering for other roles, posting in the forum, etc.), other members will move mountains to get fish to you. However, many of the same people won't sell to the general public. We're a club - sharing fish is a social experience, not cash & grab.

ALA members have been incredibly good to me, I couldn't be happier with my membership. The advanced knowledge and friendships are priceless . That's why I work so hard for the club and that's why it's a pleasure to do so. I'm not even an American, for Heaven's sake! LOL

If the online classifieds are considered a perk, why is no one using them? My guess is because the audience is very small and not worth the effort - just a guess. If I'm looking to sell something, I want the largest audience possible. With the club as the only target, I will have the smallest audience possible. Open it to the public and I'll bet you get more ads. From that, you will get more traffic to the website, and from that you may even get some additional members.

It's possible that the same could be said about the Trader, but I don't really know much about it other than what I can see with the 2 online copies. They don't show a single ad for an ornamental variety of livebearer. Why is that?

Being brand new here, I don't want to step on any toes, but I thought the perspective of someone new hoping to find fish, might be beneficial. I joined looking for people looking to sell ornamental livebearers and so far, I'm not seeing that as a benefit of membership. I'm not saying there isn't many other benefits to membership, they may be, but easy access to fancy livebearers does not appear to be one of them.

I know this comes off as complaining, but really I'm not. I'd like to simply let the club know what my expectations and experiences have been so far. Maybe it will be of some use in setting policy.

Most of the veteran ALA members aren't into "pumping out" large numbers of fish to make money. They raise fish for pleasure and some would rather give their fish to people interested than to sell them.

When I joined the ALA (before home computers and quick everything), I contacted Mr Ivan Dibble because had a posting for Bleeding Heart Platies. I wrote him a letter and enclosed a SASE self addressed stamped envelope (that's how we did it back then) I asked him to send me a 'Price List" of his fish. I think this insulted him as he told me that he wasn't a business just a hobbyist.
Just a little input about some ALA members.



Darrell

Steve, you've only been a member for a couple of days... patience is a virtue.

Darrell demonstrates what I'm trying to explain. If you take the time to build relationships with people and really experience a club for what it is, you'll never want for fish. Selling just isn't the point for most people in any hobby, especially when there are factors like strain development and conservation involved. We want to experience fishkeeping, not just do it.

When you've built those relationships, obtaining fish will be a huge benefit of membership for you too. When Darrell puts the word out that he needs fish to restock his fishroom, I'm willing to bet that he'll be overwhelmed with responses. He's been here for a long time, he's well respected, and he's a friend - everyone wants to help a friend.

The Internet has spoiled us to a point that we expect instant gratification. Sometimes it just doesn't work that way and ya know what? That's usually the case with most things worth having. If you really want to get started now, check out GoliadFarms.com. Charles Clapsaddle is on our BOD and his fish are exceptional enough to clean up at ALA shows. I've had the pleasure of receiving his fish and while he may be in the fish business, the fact that he's a hobbyist is reflected strongly in his fish.

All that said, Steve, you ARE now a member of the ALA and your feedback is every bit as valuable as anyone else's. We need to hear from people so we can build a functional community for everyone and I'm glad you shared your thoughts. The forum is just now starting to come together again after we lost it a few years ago. It takes time to reestablish a community and make it thrive again, but we'll get there. If you roll up your sleeves and pitch in, we'll get there all the faster.

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But I want fish now - LOL.

Seriously, I do have some patience, but when you decide to start keeping a fish you haven't had in awhile, the anticipation does drive you. The problem is, I've been looking for weeks and have come up with very little. I'm not used to that. Usually when I want a new fish, I can find top-notch stock easily and get my project going.

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Outside of participating on forums, clubs seems to have annual events that some attend, but it's tough to take years to develop these relationships when you want fish soon.

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Now, that's the kind of info I was hoping to find here. Thanks! Between this and a few careful selections off aquabid, I should be all set. I appreciate the help.