We CAAS are in the process of getting our BAP program up and running. I have been placed in charge of sorting the livebearers

From studying other clubs and their BAP programs I understand the major differences in the point system between easier and harder Families and their Genera. Where I'm drawing a blank is identifying the differences between the species within a genus.

Is there an existing list that might tell me for instance if a X. pygmaeus should be worth more points than a X. helleri or if an F0 Poecilia reticulata should be worth more than a hybridized pet store variety AOC guppy?

I'd love some input. If it's too difficult or there's no existing list, would you folks mind pointing out any fish within a genus that should obviously be worth more points than their counterparts?

Thank you very much for your help.

That is always a tuff question. Which fish is harder to breed? Is it Allotoca goslinei or Girardinichthys viviparus? Could it be Micropoecilia picta or Brachyrhaphis terrabensis? That is the age old question.

Of the fish listed above, for me, it is the Micropoecilia picta, although the others will say it is another species listed. I don’t like points. My home club does one species one point. If you are in an area of hard water it might be very hard to breed Apistogramma sp of fish. If you are in an area of very soft water it may be equally as hard to breed African rift lake cichlids. How do you know how hard it is too really breed a fish across all hobbyists? At one time Discus were impossible to breed; now if you know what you are doing there should be relatively little issue with breeding them.

I have been breeding goodeids for years but some of the supposedly easier Poecilia sp. seem to be more difficult for me for a number of reasons, water temperature, water chemistry and such.

All I am saying is it may be an easy fish to breed for one person but hard for another person to breed even with similar water and tank set ups.

I like one point per fish. My home club has a couple other recognition programs besides the BAP program and we are working on others for people that breed difficult species.

Once again you bring up a very good question but from my point of view what is wrong with one point per fish? People may breed 100 or so of the easier fish for them to breed (or that they are interested in) but then they will get into the thick of things and have to really start to work at the next 100.

I know this doesn’t help with your question but then again I never really seem to help with these questions anyway.

Good luck and I am interested to see what others have to say.

The main point differences that I have seen among livebearers in a BAP program are reserved to breeders of rare or endangered wild species. I have seen several clubs that give an extra point for breeding something that is threatened according to places like the IUCN red list. The idea is to encourage people to keep and breed species that otherwise might not be able to survive. Often the threatened species are not much more than minnow looking things that have no special appeal in terms of appearance but they are definitely worth trying to help.

So basically, a swordtail is a swordtail and a platy is a platy and there are usually no differences in point value between species in the same genus?

I like the idea about "extra credit" for an endangered species. I'll have to research that a little.

Yes, you are correct that fish in the same genus are usually the same point value.

If you would like some clubs to copy or “cheat” from the clubs below have point systems already set up and provide a pretty good outline of what livebearers are more difficult. Nobody’s list is 100% complete or in my opinion accurate (part of the reason I don’t like point systems) but these seem to do a pretty good job of sorting out points for each fish.

http://www.brooklynaquariumsociety.org/pdfs/BAP/BAP-Manual.pdf

http://www.pvas.com/bappoints.php

http://www.motorcityaquariumsociety.c ... _BAP_Species_Points-1.pdf

You can also take a copy of TFH and look up clubs in the back and visit all of the different club pages until you find one that you like and then use that as a basis for your program.

Happy surfing

In fact a simple X helleri is nothing special whether it is a fancy variation or a pet shop variety for most BAP programs, including my own club's. On the other hand, an X helleri that has wild collection source information may get an extra point, depending on the club, compared to a pet shop variety. A Xiphophorus of another less common type might indeed get an extra point for being less common, or it may not if it is not in any way threatened. All swordtails are quite easy to keep and breed so they seldom will get an extra BAP point unless they have something special about them. If you get one of the hard to find swords, they might get an extra point for being one worth preserving or for being hard to find in themselves. My own X. montezumae will likely get me the same BAP points as a simple pet shop X. helleri since they are easy as can be to breed and are easy enough to find among the livebearer keepers of the world. The only advantage that I have found with less common livebearers in terms of BAP points is that by seldom being seen you can get points for them along side the more common fish. You could think of it as getting double points for not much more effort.
My X. monties and X. helleri will each earn me some BAP points since they are from different species.

Our club has a system of 5 types of points. A level is worth 5 points, B is worth 10, etc. Each level goes up in level of difficulty of breeding, not necessarily whether or not they're endangered.

I'll post the relevant info here:

A class (5 points)

any Poecilia, Xiphophorus, Gambusia, or other not in B,C,or D.

B class (10 points)

Halfbeaks, any member of family Goodeidae

C class (15 points)

any Alfaro and Jenynsia species

D class (20 points)

Anableps (any species), Belonesox belizanus



Hmm, just realized that this is the older rules, but they're still pretty close to the ones we use now.

Check out my local BAP program.
http://www.missouriaquariumsociety.com/BAP/BAP.htm

What we do since it is so much work for the chair, the species,genus etc gets the full credit points. if you have a color or location differance it gets one point, if however the species is on the red list/ cares species it get doudble base points.

regardles, if you breed there helleri species the diff var, you would get 5 for the first than one for the next two.

Great!
Thank you all for your replies. This will be very helpful to our club. We're still trying to work it all out. It's going a little slowly because we have too many club members putting in their two cents.

I don't know if non-members can read the posting but this is the list our BAP committee head has created thus far.

http://aquacharlotte.org/CAASBBS/viewtopic.php?t=8179